$650k in 12 months without media buys… but here to

$650k in 12 months without media buys… but here to learn

Hi all,

I’m new to the board, I’ve been reading around a bit and… wow!

My name’s Dan Bainbridge, I’m from the UK, currently living in London. I own 3 big self improvement shopping portals, which between them have made over $650k in sales revenue in the last 12 months… but NONE of this was through big scale media buying (it was all with some google ppc, some natural seo traffic, email marketing, and the rest with affiliates and JVs / Launches), which is why I’m here to learn media buying from the ground up, scale our traffic up massively, and take my $650k to several $million over the next 12 months.

As a little background, I own:

  • Been running 4 years, gets 30k traffic a month, converts at 4% – has an affiliate program (on Shareasale) that pays 35% as standard. $27 average order value.
  • Been running 1.5 years, gets 40k+ traffic a month, converts at 2%, has an affiliate program (on Clickbank) that pays 75%. $28 average order value.
  • – Just launched this month, 100k + traffic this month because of the launch (brought in $70k revenue in launch week), looking to be 10k+ traffic a month from here onwards 4-6% conversion rate. Has an affiliate program that pays 50% (on Clickbank). $22 (but rising as we add more products) average order value.

My skills lie in basic copy-writing, simple site structure which is seo optimised, basic ppc i.e. google ppc, email marketing. We aim to grow 1 big site a year and turn it into an authority in that niche and generate large amounts of traffic through JVs, affiliates and launches… although being here is like having my eyes opened to a whole new world where we are small-time!

All of our sites are huge sites with 250+ products / pages on them (except which is newer but growing). We have products in ALL areas of self improvement including weight loss, the law of attraction, confidence, stopping smoking, and even adult areas like penis enlargement.

The reason I am here is that I want to step up to the big time. I feel like we have the successful sites, we have the offers that really do convert, yet we are not experts in big media buys which seems to be where the really successful are making 100x more money.

I see these other products like weight loss pills, acai, penis enlargement pills/methods which are generating millions of clicks and $s every month.. and then I look at our own offers and products and I don’t see why we can’t do it too?… I know we can if we learn it and get involved with people who already do it.

Our main problem(s) (?)

Possibly that we don’t look like everyone else we are a big webstore with 250+ pages on our sites, rather than a 1page long copy salespage… I think we get overlooked by most of the experienced media buyers/affiliates (our top affiliates are our JV partners with their own self help products and 50-200k list sizes)… or maybe we are just not mixing in the right circles so hopefully this forum will help..

Or perhaps that our average order value is relatively low only $27; which depending on which site, leaves $10-20 (approx) for any affiliate.

Or that we are an instant sale, and don’t do rebills / continuity.

The positives we have

We really do convert, really well. 4%+ on our 2 best sites, so what we lack in average value we make up for with a solid conversion, and what we lack in re-bills / continuity we make up for in repeat buys across our giant range of products.

All in all, our EPC (earning per 100 clicks) for affiliates is fantastic. This is a screen-shot from our longest established and most consistent site it shows our current average EPC taken today (which is higher at Christmas / Thanksgiving / if we really push a big sale), and the EPC / conversion / earnings of some of our better affiliates:

But what I’d like really from this forum is to learn media buying… I’m not here looking to push our program on people or to recruit affiliates, I genuinely want to learn for myself as at the end of the day the only person you can really rely on is yourself… but I wanted to show the stats above to show I’m not talking rubbish or dreaming I hope you agree but we do have solid offers and think we can expand our traffic a lot now through media buys, and hopefully keep a solid conversion too.

I would appreciate any comments, and suggestions, and indeed criticisms I can take it, in-fact I welcome it…

^ those stats are on our site, but going into the future I think our latest site is going to be much bigger… it is already converting at a similar level and the average order value is rising as we add products, and as a measure of potential; keyword searches on google the hypnosis market is perhaps 20x or more bigger than the subliminal one…

Not to mention that hypnosis keywords are more popular than some big acai berry keywords for example:

  • weight loss hypnosis 60,500 monthly
  • acai berry weight los 33,100 monthly
  • acai berry 823,000 monthly
  • hypnosis 2,240,000 monthly

The friend who referred me here rightfully pointed out that keyword traffic doesn’t matter in so much in media buying, it is more based on demographics, and overall niche interests and pushing an offer to someone rather than hoping they search for you… which I agree with…

… but at least it shows existing interest / popularity, and surely it should help give a boost / head-start that my product (hypnosis for weight loss) is more mainstream, more searched for, more popular than some of these areas which are typically associated with media buying already?

Anyway, you can see I am new to this area and green to media buying, but I am here to learn. I would greatly appreciate any and all feedback, especially any criticism, and especially if anyone would be able to give any pointers for simple places they would recommend I try first.

Thanks for your time guys, I look forward to meeting you properly and learning!

Dan Bainbridge

User Comment:
what do you need to know? media buying is a huge topic.

maybe pick out 5 questions you want to know right now and then we can help/answer those and then drill down from that. Just to get the ball rolling.

User Comment:
Dan, welcome to the forum.

User Comment:
Welcome and please ask any questions you like about media/display happy to help with the limited bit I know…

User Comment:
Cool story Dan. Welcome to the forums

User Comment:
welcom Dan,,, i think you’ll have some great knowledge for us!

User Comment:
Awesome intro into what you do, like eliquid said ask some questions in the mediabuy area, and see where you can get started.

1 important thing to know about buys is it takes quite a bit of capital to find out what converts. Also with your more specific niches (such as hypnosis weight loss vs regular weight loss) you may want to look into much smaller/targeted buys.

User Comment:
Thanks, Daksneezian, polarbacon, mtmgao, and everyone!

Originally Posted by eliquid

what do you need to know? media buying is a huge topic.

maybe pick out 5 questions you want to know right now and then we can help/answer those and then drill down from that. Just to get the ball rolling.

Thanks eliquid, Hmm, well in 4 years online, and builidng up several authority sites, I still know really little about this, so I don’t want to embarass myself by asking newbie questions – I have the type of stupid newbie questions people ask on the WF right now, like, give me a step by step, I need a mentor, whats the best way / place to start…

I devour information, I just need to read the getting started guides, and some of the bigger / follow along threads… and then ask questions as I try / based on my experience…

But I would also be interested to hear what people think our our sites generally… in 3 years with an active, strongly converting affiliate program, with a good EPC, we haven’t managed to pickup any strong media buyers / ppc guys so must be something missing… I definitely want this to change in the future…

Originally Posted by iwanturcoin

welcom Dan,,, i think you’ll have some great knowledge for us!

Thanks, and yes, after reading around more it definitely looks like we have taken a different route / have a different method to most here… our aim is to develop evergreen, lifelong websites and dominate a niche with a wide range of products… more than happy to share my stats and experience on seo, site structure, JVs and launches, email marketing…

Originally Posted by stackman

Awesome intro into what you do, like eliquid said ask some questions in the mediabuy area, and see where you can get started.

1 important thing to know about buys is it takes quite a bit of capital to find out what converts. Also with your more specific niches (such as hypnosis weight loss vs regular weight loss) you may want to look into much smaller/targeted buys.

Thanks, I am going to read for a few days, then look to get started with something towards the end of next week..

.. and yes, a small, hopefully accurately targeted campaign would be great – even with a baby spend of $500 – $2k would be nice to just test the waters and see the traffic quality from a few different sources… currently reading: Media Buying on a $500 [Gigantic Guide] so going to read around this a lot more, but looks quite plausible, and a good idea to do a small test to different places and get my feet wet.

Would also like to try PoF with possibly a weight loss offer… my newbie brain tells me to target over 35yr, women, divorced / seperated, who are "average" or "a little extra padding" or whatever it is…. also would like to try facebook more… but with my limited experience there I just bombed – I tried to target women, who "like" "weight watchers" and send them to my weight loss hypnosis page… the coversion was about 0.5% and the clicks too expensive… This is what put me off investigating this more, I really convert really well on active keyword based traffic, but right now, yes, demographic targeting baffles me and I am skeptical.. but at the same time I know it’s possible..

Anyway, I’m waffeling,
Thanks, Can’t wait to get started, and when I do, I will probably post all of my results live for other people to see, and ideally follow in the future if it works


User Comment:
Hey danbainbridge –

I am curious about your share a sale and clickbank sites like

1. How much % of your traffic comes from affilites pushing it via CB?
2. How much % revenue is from the affiliates pushing it via CB?

I thought about pushing a product on there, but wasnt sure if having affiliates would be worth it or if my main rev.traffic would just be from myself.


User Comment:
Hi eliquid,

I don’t know the exact answers to your questions to be honest, I would say approx 30-40% comes from affiliates, and overall 20-30% of overall revenue stream (the reason it wouldnt be the same % is that on average, affiliates don’t convert as well as I do, because there are some who lower it by sending total junk clicks through CB).

The important point though is that I have VERY FEW good affiliates who just "work" as you would hope they would… i.e. they do stuff autonomously and make sales without needing interaction from me..

The truth is I know and am in contact with ALL of my GOOD affiliates… they make up 95% of all affiliate sales, and I have to recruit them, network with them, and spoon feed them… I don’t mind too much, it’s worth spoon feeding someone their copy and links etc if they have a 200k list and will make $5k in sales or something.. and I have to be spoon fed in the same way now too 😛 … but it’s not how you imagine usually… you have to work at it, contact affiliates / JV partners yourself… if youre wishing of that dream product that just gets popular and you sit back and bank then think again


User Comment:
Ever thought about creating your own CPA product and taking it to the CPA networks?

With rebills gone the weight loss niche is waiting on something "new". With CPA offers you will get the best affiliates on the internet – and you can rebill (if done correctly).

I did quite a bit with self help products on AdWords Display a few years back. Its great to find sites that work and then going direct is the best option.

Sites like is a goldmine with the right product

User Comment:
Would like to publish on CPA at some point in the future, but just got so much to do at the minute, and after having just gotten "good at" regular pay per sale affiliate marketing I think CPA might just be a whole new ballgame / learning curve / starting at the bottom of the ladder again…. one day… but for now we have plenty of successful stuff going on that we can and should do more with for starters.

Yes, is good – we buy mailouts from them every so often and they work well for us, not done on site media buying through them though.

The Article Published IN 08-19-2011 03:02 PM

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